Vera Kameneva interviewed by Carol Zuckert April 21, 1999 Vera Kameneva takes the oath for her U. S. Citizenship Council House Apartments, Tucson Arizona1 Photographs accompany Vera Kameneva's Oral History Q: Vera has been helping me enormously by translating the interviews with the people who did not speak a lot of English and has also made many phone calls to arrange interviews. She is quite familiar with the process. So Vera, tell me please where you were born. A: I was born Belorussia in the Republic of USSR. My family lived in there until I was five years old. At that time, my father pass away and my mother decide to move to Leningrad. She has relatives in Leningrad. So my mother, my older brother and I, we go to Leningrad in 1931. From that time until we immigrate to the United Stated I live in Leningrad, now St. Petersburg. Q: What was it when you moved there; the name of the city? A: Leningrad. Q: What is your date of birth? A: It is August 28, 1926. Q: You went to school in Leningrad? What kind of schools did you go to? A: It was public school. I was in kindergarten, primary school and middle school. Then we went to World War II and I went to 7th grade. Afterward I was evacuated with the school to the center of Russia. Q: Was this in the central part, where it was safer? Where there wasn't fighting? A: Germany begin to bomb Leningrad and the children were evacuated to Kostroma. That is in the middle of Russia and the Germans did not bomb this place in the beginning. Q: Was your brother with you? A: No. My brother and mother lived in Leningrad and I alone with my school and my cousin were evacuated. [IMAGE: Vera's evacuation certificate 14K] Q: Were you frightened to be away from your family? A: Yes, it was terrible. Q: So you were evacuated? A: Yes, we lived in a school in Kostroma, possibly 100 children. Q: Without any parents or family? A: We cannot connect with our family in Leningrad. No telephone and no mail. We did not know what was happening in Leningrad. After maybe five months or so my uncle find me. He come to me and take me into Kazakhstan. Q: With your mother? A: No. My mother was in Leningrad then afterward maybe she come to Kazakhstan with my brother. Q: So just you went with your uncle to Kazakhstan. You were in the school in Kostroma for five months. How did he find you? A: It was, I don't know. Q: Didn't the school leave word where you all were taken? A: His daughter, my uncle's daughter was with me. She was younger than I. He began to search for us. He find us. He go from town to town. So he find us and he take us. We went with him to Kazakhstan. To Semipalatinsk, a city in Kazakhstan. Q: Didn't he have a wife? Where was his wife? A: His wife is a long history. My uncle's wife, it was before the war begins, his wife and his son who was born in 1940; in June 1940. The child was 11 months old and they, before the war, they went to the little town, not so far from Leningrad, for the summertime. When the war begins they cannot come back. Q: So they were left in that little town at that point? A: And they run from the town before, because Germany come to this town very quickly. They come to the suburban cities very quickly. Q: To suburban Leningrad very quickly. A: Yes, very quickly they come. So it was very difficult for my uncle's wife. Q: Your aunt; it was difficult for her? A: It was very difficult for my aunt to run from this town and from Germany. She has a baby on hand. Only 11 months old. She cannot take no dress and no food. So she walk with him, maybe two days. Afterwards she get there and a train but not a good train. It was a train for the animals. So many people, the Government and the military they take the trains. Q: They used the trains? A: Yes they used the trains, military and Government. The Government in this place where people and they put them in these trains. Many of trains were for animals. The people on the train they don't know where they go. So she come also to in the middle of Russia and she try to connect with her husband who is of course in Leningrad. Q: He is still in Leningrad at this point? A: Yes. My uncle has bad vision and he was not in military. He was civilian and was from the services of military he was released. He was released from service in the military or army. He was not in the war. Q: So how did you aunt live without any money or food? A: It was very hard. And with the baby. No food. If somebody give something to her to eat, people who organize this distribute food. Q: Was she feeding the baby food or did she breast feed? Or do you know? A: She does not breast feed the baby. Q: She had to feed by mouth the baby and herself. A: It was very very hard. The baby became sick, very sick and he of course needed to be in hospital. Q: Do you remember where? A: Some town. Q: When you say the train had animals, were they like box cars? Do you know what I mean by freight train? A: What is this freight? Q: Trains that can't goods. Big boxes but no seats. Like what they used to transport people to the death camps; same thing. A: Yes. So we find them in Semipalatinsk. in Kazakhstan. They had to live with my mother's sister. We all adult relatives. But we don't know this address. We want to send letters. We wrote to her and through her we find each other. So my aunt find us with my cousin. So we come to Semipalatinsk. I began to study in school. Q: Okay, before you go on to that, how did you get from your little town in Russian to Kazakhstan? A: A train. A normal train. Q: A normal train. A: It was not war in this place. Q: You mean Kazakhstan? A: No, in Russia. Q: But the Nazis hadn't gotten there yet? A: It was very difficult to get a ticket to the train. Q: To get a ticket? A: My uncle get his tickets and we go. It was, maybe two weeks, we take the train to Semipalatinsk from Kostroma. It was a hard time. We cannot wash. It was very hard. Q: What about food? A: Food was so much, but we was a little bit hungry. Q: How old are you now at this point? How old were you when you got on that train? A: I was 13 or 14 years old. Q: Was there any danger to you as a young woman? With the soldiers? Did they bother you as a young woman? A: No, I was in school. After then I was with my uncle. Q: You take the train and you arrive in Kazakhstan. What happened then? A: Then my mother and my brother come. Q: How did you live there? Did your uncle have a job? A: Yes. He began to work. We all live in my aunt's house. It was not a house, it was a flat. Q: Apartment? A: Yes, apartment. It was so many children and adults in that flat. My mother and my brother come, we all leave sometimes. In this flat my aunt and afterward maybe a year passed and my mother get a flat. She began to work also. Q: So how many people were there in this apartment at one time? A: About, Her, her husband, my aunt, my uncle, his two children, another aunt, her daughter, I, my brother and my mother. A total of 11. Q: Was it a one bedroom or a two bedroom? A: It was two bedrooms.Very difficult. Q: One bathroom? A: Yes. It was very difficult. Time by time some of us get our flat. My mother receive a flat and afterward my uncle, so it began to get easier. A: Why was your aunt in Kazakhstan? A: Her husband was from this place. My aunt and my mother was bom in Belorussia. Q: How did your mother afford the flat? What did she do? Did she work? A: She worked. She work in the office. She was an accountant. Q: Was that considered a good profession? A: Yes and from this office where she worked, they give her the flat, the apartment. Q: So you were in middle school. A: It was high school now. Yes, 8, 9 and 10 classes. I graduated in Semipalatinsk. [IMAGE: Vera age 12, 1938 10K] Q: You stayed there quite a while? You stayed there several years? A: Yes. We cannot come to Leningrad. It was blockaded there. The war was there. Q: Did you understand that you were lucky? A: Yes. We understand. But when we were in Kazakhstan, we don't know what is happening in Leningrad now. Q: Where were all of your contacts and connections there? A: No. Our government did not report in the newspapers about this. Q: So you went to high school and graduated from high school. Then what happened? A: My brother was in, when he came to Semipalatinsk, he graduated from 9th grade and when he come he graduate from 10th. He graduated from high school at the 10th class. We sent him to the military school and after he finish and graduate his school he become an officer. [IMAGE: Vera's mother, brother's baby Lila, Vera, brother's wife Clara, brother Efim Kamenev 17K] Q: Now he is Jewish? A: He is Jewish. Q: Was that a problem for him being an officer? A: No. In the time of war, no it was not. Being an officer is was not very high but he was lowest officer. He was a lieutenant. When it was six months in the school, they must descend to war on the front. But my brother, he played piano. He went to musical school in Leningrad. Q: Before you left? A: Yes, before we left. He was very talented in music. The director of his military school, he said, "I don't send you to the war. You have to be in our school and you have to be a teacher in this school. You have to organize the music for the students for this school." My brother said, "No. I have to go to the war. I want not." So he write the report. He wanted to go to the front, everyone wanted to fight the Germans because they were enemies of the Jewish people and others. They are not fighting for communism. When I was 15 or 16, I understood communism. In 1937 and 1938, many people had been in jail. They were arrested before the war. When they were released they went to live in a few cities. And we knew some of the in Semipalatinsk; they were exiles. They were considered enemies of the people. They were luck - others were shot by the communists. We learned about dangers from them, but it was dangerous. There were many paid informants. Q: He had such a military fervor. He wanted to serve his country. To act or fight for his country? A: Yes, yes I understand. Q: And his country was? What did he think of as his country? A: Oh, we understand a little bit in bad time what this communism and what is Stalin. They cost, the way for his people. We was children but we understand it is not all good. We know about the arrests many people and we know the people who was arrested. But to understand what happened but they are not guilty. That we understand but in the building where we live, every night come man in black car. When they come pick up their own. So many people arrested in 1937, 38 and 39. Gestapo. Get their own. Don't know who was arrested. Q: So this is before the war. A: Yes. It was 1937 and the war begins in 1941. We know about it, but we only figure out ourself about it. We cannot read about it but we can speak about it. But then begins the war and then our country was in danger. All the people want to fight against each other. Q: I see, including your brother. So about what year did he go into the military school? A: He went into the military school, he had to go into the military school. Q: What year was that? A: It was 1943 or 1944. Q: So he's going off to war. A: He was in the school and the director from the military school left him in the school. Q: He wouldn't let him go fight? A: Yes. My brother don't want to live in this school. I say to him to give three reports. He sit here. The director said, "I cannot give permission for you to go to war. I cannot." He was a good man. Q: He was protecting your brother. A: Yes. Q: That was his major reason. A: He was a very good man and he has a son at that age and he was killed in the war. My brother was like him. Q: He was like his son? A: He was like his son. So he liked my brother because he was a very good student. He protect him. Q: In the meantime what are you doing? A: I was in school and after it I graduate from the school in 1945. In that time, the war was finished, but we cannot return back. Leningrad was closed and we cannot come. I finished very good with school, I have all the high grades. I have examination. Q: Because you have such good grades. A: Yes, for this student was so good. We have write to attend the university and say what we want. Q: Study anything you wanted? A: Study anything without examination. Q: You could write into school but everybody else had to take an examination to qualify? A: Yes. We have to take examination for four or five disciplines. I sent my papers in Leningrad. They answer me that I enrolled but we cannot now. Now Leningrad is closed. When the Government decides to open, people and students can come. They sent me a special paper when I can come. So I decided to go the institute that was in Semipalatinsk. It was an institute. In that institute was many teachers from Moscow. So we still worked in this institute. So I decided to go to this institute. I came, it was a year, I graduate the first course. You have four or five courses. Q: One after another? A: Yes. It is not the system as here. We have another system in Russia. It was another system. We cannot chose the discipline as in university here. Q: You cannot? A: No. It was a special course and we have to take all this course. Q: Every part of it? A: Every discipline. Afterward we can go to another course. Q: Specialize? A: Yes, specialize. Q: That was your choice? A: Yes. It was the choice. So I chose literature and another one. We have a study time. We didn't have to go to any classes and all you had to do was take the examination and pass it. So I take one. My major was literature. Now I take physical mathematics. Afterward I receive a paper from university from Leningrad, that I can come. So in 1946 I come, myself only without my mother. I went to Leningrad and began to study at the University at Leningrad. Q: Yes, what did you study? A: In Russian you say a law faculty. Q: So you were studying law. So you went from literature to law. A: Yes, but I want to go to another faculty. The second course on the literature at the University. I spoke to the Chief of the facility, you know. Q: The dean. We would say dean. A: The dean said you can't do it. The literature, you have no, not yourself. You have to study on this faculty. So I begin to study and I finished the University in 1950. [IMAGE: Vera's Special Diploma of Distinction from the Law Faculty, Leningrad State University 18K] Q: Did you meet your husband then? A: No, I meet my husband in my friends house. Q: Was it intentional? She set it up so that you and he would be there? A: No, no. No, it just happened that way. Q: How did you husband know your friend? What was the connection? A: He knows her, he has friend and my husband knows the friends. Q: A common friend. A: Yes. Q: Okay. How old were you when you met your husband? A: I was maybe 23. Q: So did you go out together, we might say "date". Did you like him immediately? A: No, not immediately. But after I, he was very, very passionate. He comes and comes to our house. Q: So he was persistent. A: Persistent. Q: Persistent is a good word. He kept going and wanting to meet you. A: Yes, yes. Q: To be with you. A: After a year or seven or eight months, we get married. [View Vera's marriage certificate 40K] Q: Was that fast? A: Yes. Q: So what did he do? What was his occupation? A: He was an engineer. Q: What kind of engineer? A: He was a machine building person. Q: How old were you at this time? A: I was 24. Q: Was that a normal age for young women to be married in Russia? Typical or not typical? A: Yes. Maybe a little bit younger. Usually 21 or 22. But I am 24. Q: How many years were you married? A: About 45 years. Q: He had a job. Was he finished with school? A: Yes. He was finished with the Graduate Institute. He was in the war. Q: He was in the war too? A: Yes. He was in the war. He was wounded in the war. After mobilization, he studied at the Institute. Q: Then you had two children. A: Yes, we had two children. Q: The two boys. A: Yes two boys. Q: You smile when you say that. A: Yes! Q: Did you work? A: After I graduate from the University, I cannot find a job. It was so great anti Semitism. I finished in 1950 and I cannot find a job. I cannot find a job and I cannot continue to study. In Russia it is a not our choose. We were prepared to decide work. Here it is when people after the University if they want to be or to get Masters degree they finish. In Russia we have another system. Q: I know, it's not comparable. A: When we graduate from University, and the best student can study and continue his education. After that we have a PhD. Q: So you are working on a Doctorate? Is that what you are saying? The third level degree? A: I cannot. I have very good papers only I have red diploma. Q: High diploma? A: It is very good diploma. Only five grades I have. In this education, you have five Grade system. Q: The grades? A: You know 1, 2, 3, . Q: A is being the highest? A: Yes, the highest. I have only A's. Because I have straight A's I have a red diploma. With red diploma, the best students, we can go to get degree to go for Ph.D. Q: For a Ph.D. You can go on for the pH? A: But I cannot because 1 was Jewish. We don't let me exam to this. Q: They wouldn't allow you to take the examination? A: Yes, I cannot take the exam because I am Jewish. They don't take my papers but my professors want me to do very much. Q: To do the program? A: Yes to do the program. But they cannot do anything. It was the director in the University. The President of the graduate school, we call him the director. We talk to the director but he cannot do anything. Q: Can't pull any strings as we would say? A: No. I cannot find a job, of course. We cannot send me to the lawyers. I have to be a member of the Communist Party. Q: And you didn't want to join them? A: No. Q: Okay, but some people have that we have talked to. A: No, I want no. I hate them. I understand the system, I am disgusted and I cannot be in them. My brother was a member but he was military man, from the war he was. But my husband was not a member of the Communist Party. Q: So the two of you were not members. A: Yes. Q: I want to know about your Judaism. You knew I would get around to that. Did you have any opportunity to learn about Judaism? A: A little bit from my mother. In Leningrad, we live near the synagogue. Q: Was there one synagogue in Leningrad? A: One synagogue. Q: How many Jewish people were there then? We are talking before the war now, right? A: Not before the war I am not sure. Maybe after the war maybe we have two million in Leningrad. Q: Two million? A: I think so, but I am not sure. Q: A lot of people were Communists then? A lot of Jews were Communist? A: It was in the war that there were Communists. Because during the war, we have to be Communist. Q: The men were required to be Communist? To get jobs? A: It was the young people who were in the army who have to be Communist. Q: Did your mother believe in God. A: My mother believe in God and she went to synagogue. I went with her to the synagogue. My father was, he believe in God, he sing in the synagogue. He has very good music hearing. My brother, he was good hearing and good voice. He sang in synagogue and knows all the service. Q: In Hebrew? A: In Hebrew, yes. Q: So your father, could he read Hebrew? Did you have Seders? A: Yes, I remember. I was only five years old when he passed away but I remember gefilte fish and kepa (skull cap) on his head. Q: The prayer shawl? A: Yes. I do forget some. The tallis on his shoulders. Maybe this was a Friday, we light the candles. We would pray. Afterwards we would eat. I remember this. Q: So you were observant? A: Yes. Q: Did you sing songs at home. A: No, I have not a good voice. Q: But that wasn't part of what you did on Friday night? Did you sing? A: My father sing. Q: At home? A: Yes, at home. Q: Did anybody else? Did your mother sing? A: No. Q: He just sang the service, the prayers? A: Yes. Afterwards when mother was alone, she tried to continue the service at home. Every Friday she would light the candles and pray, right? She did not go to the synagogue every Shabbat. Sometimes she went to the synagogue and every holiday. Q: You celebrated? A: Celebrated. I went with her to the synagogue. Q: Could you read Hebrew then? A: No. Q: So you never learned how to read it? A: No. Q: What about your brother, was he Bar Mitzvah? A: No. Q: Do you know, was it that the war got in the way? A: No. Q: How come he was not Bar Mitzvah? A: He was not Bar Mitzvah but he was 13. No we cannot do it. Q: Because you weren't allowed. A: Yes. Q: Your sons today, have you raised them being Jewish. A: Yes. Q: Did you practice Judaism at home? A: With the younger son a little. Q: Still or is it going away? A: Yes the youngest who lives in Michigan and my grandson was born and he is now 9 month old. Q: Oh, you have a very young grandchild. A: Yes. Q: So when were your sons born? What years were they born? A: Older son was born in 1955. Q: And his name is? A: His name is Genna. [IMAGE: Genna and Vera's mother 12K] Q: Named after your mother? A: Not my mother, my husband's mother. Q: Your husband's mother. A: Yes. The younger son was born in 1962. Q: His name is? A: Michael. [IMAGE: Mikhail, 1970 10K] Q: Is he the one who is here in Tucson? A: No. Michael is in Michigan and Genna is here in Tucson. Michael has the baby who is 9 months old. He did a Bris. His name was given in synagogue. Q: What last name do your sons use? A: Mesh. Q: We didn't talk about that, but your husband's name was Mesh. You told me the other day that you didn't use that name. A: Yes, I cannot use. I get a check, I six months without check. It was very difficult to live only because I was Jewish person. Afterward I came to work in the factory as a lawyer. I was a business lawyer. Afterward I came to work in the factory as a lawyer. I was a business lawyer. I can give you a card. I show you because it was long time. I worked in this factory all the time for 45 years. Q: That was a long time. A: I came to work as a lawyer. After 10 years, I become head of the department. The lawyer's department. Q: So you worked there for 45 years and became head of the department. Your husband was working as a mechanical engineer. A: He was a mechanical engineer for maybe 15 years; he became chief engineer. Q: So what was your life like? What did you do when you were living in St. Petersburg? You had the children and you went to work everyday. Did you go to synagogue? Was there a synagogue at that point? A: I go to the synagogue only on the great holidays. Q: On the high holidays. Was your husband a practicing Jew? Was he Jewish? A: Yes, in heart. His family was very Orthodox. He went from his family when he was 16 years old. Q: Why did he leave them? A: Because he went to Leningrad and his family (father and mother) they lived in the Ukraine in small schtetel. Q: So he wanted to go to the University; is that why he left? A: He was 16 years, so he can study. Q: So it was time. A: Yes. At 18 years was mobilized. Q: Your children were how old when you started to think about coming to the United States? Why did you decide to come to the United States? A: Because of the dissidence. Q: Did you have other family and cousins? Did you keep up with your cousins? Did you spend time with your other family? A: Here or in Leningrad? Q: In Leningrad. A: In St. Petersburg. We have many friends there, in St. Petersburg. We have friends from the university. We have friends from the job. We communicate with our friends. Sometimes we meet with them. Q: In the old days? A: Yes. We went to the museums and theaters. Q: So you did a lot of things. A: Yes. Q: We are starting the interview again a few days later. Today is the 26th. It's 11:05 in the morning and we are going to take up with a little bit of what life was like and I think we pretty much covered everything. Tell me about your children and what they did when they were in St. Petersburg. A: They study in school and after that they study in the institutes. They graduate from the institutes. Q: The institute; not the university. A: No the university but when they study it was at the institute. The older son, he graduated from Engineer Institute. He is a chemical engineer. Q: Here? A: Yes. His profession, occupation, and now he works in Tucson as a chemical engineer. Q: It's interesting that a lot of people who came from the former Soviet Union, they do not have a hard time finding jobs in the sciences; like computers, hard sciences, chemistry. They can still transfer their skills from Russia to here. A: Yes. Q: But a lot of skills, like physicians are not easy to transfer. A: Yes. Very hard in America. Many people from Russia find jobs and work, some as a physician here. Q: And the other son? A: The other son, he graduated from technical institute. He is a physical mechanic. In Physics. Q: Mechanical physics. A: Mechanical physics. He and his family they live in Michigan. Q: Detroit area? A: Yes. Near Detroit. He works for GM; General Motors exactly of his occupation. Q: Very good. So he was able to transfer his skills. A: Yes. Q: Does he have a good job, would you say? A: Yes, a very good job. Q: That's wonderful. The woman he married, where was she from? A: Leningrad. Q: How old is she? A: She is 36. Q: And they have children? A: Yes. The baby who is 9 month old. Q: Have you seen this child? A: Yes. She has a child from her first marriage. Q: I see. A: Another child, a girl. She is 14 years old. Q: Does the girl live with them? A: Yes. She is a very good girl. Q: Is your daughter-in-law Jewish? A: Yes. Q: She was born Jewish? A: Yes. Q: When you say yes like that do you really mean "of course." Is that what you mean? A: Yes! Q: But weren't there friends of your son's that married? A: My children have friends in Russia and they were only Jewish people. Q: Isn't that unusual or not? A: Maybe for the most of the people it was usual. I think so. But often it was usual for our family. I have only Jewish friends. Q: Now is that because of anti-Semitism or because of choice? A: It is because of anti-Semitism. I have a good friend. I have enough friends but I work together with many peoples, Russian peoples, they are good. But not so close to me as Jewish people. Q: So okay. We didn't talk about why you decided to come to America. Is that because of the anti-Semitism? We did talk about that. How difficult was it for you to get here? A: Here? Q: To America. A: To America. It was hard. My youngest son, Michael, he left Russia because of anti-Semitism. He cannot live there because of anti-Semitism. We get a job but we cannot tell. The anti-Semitism was so great, we cannot. It was very hard. Every day when we was there, main street, they let me by. The buildings were posted with anti-Semitic articles. Only buildings were for business. So many newspapers with anti-Semitism articles. Q: Daily newspapers? The current newspaper for sale? A: Yes. Q: They were posted on the walls? A: Yes, on the walls. Big crowds. Q: Crowds? Okay. A: Crowds read it and loudly speak about these articles and these Jewish people treat so badly. All the troubles, what we have in this country, is from this paper about the Jewish people. It My sons go to this street. It was so, many people. The war was ending and they shot the Jewish people. I was afraid that we can get beat. Q: Get beaten up? A: Yes. It was very bad then. Q: About what year are you talking about? A: It was 1993, when we come here. Q: What about Michael, you said he came first? A: He came in 1992. Q: I see. Did he have a job when he came? A: Yes. He had a job. Jewish Family and Children Service helped him. They meet and him and very, very nice to him. Q: Was his wife with him? A: No. At the time, he wasn't married. Q: He was very brave to come all by himself. A: Yes. Q: About how old was he at that point? A: He was born in 1962. Q: So he was about 30 years old. A: Yes. They helped him get a job. He began to work as a programmer. He want to get his pH. Q: Oh, he didn't have his pH? A: No. He has not. He entered the Doctorate Program at University of Arizona. So he quit the job and begin to study at the University. Q: Who paid for that? A: He didn't pay. I think he found program, he received a scholarship. It is not so much. Q: But he was a student and students are poor sometimes. A: Yes, he have his profession. Q: Oh I see, he was like an assistant in the college. A: Sometimes he wrote a lecture. Q: He wrote it? A: Yes. Q: So he was a very good student. A: Yes, he was a good student. Now his wife come and he married here. Q: Did they know each other before? Oh, they did. A: Yes. He began to send here his resume and the companies they invited him. So he left Leningrad. But he did the Masters Program and he get a Masters Degree. He has diploma from Russia and a Masters Degree from Russia. He study at the English school so he knows English very well. Q: Just like you are getting to. You are getting there yourself! That's wonderful. What I wanted to ask you about both your sons and the institutes to which they went. If there was so much anti-Semitism, how were they allowed to go to school? To go to the institutes? A: When we enter those institutes, it was very anti-Semitism, yes. In some universities, some institutes Jewish people cannot enter. I finished before great anti-Semitism. I graduated from university in Leningrad. But when I entered school, the university was not so anti-Semitism. It was after the war. It was 1946 and it, you could then. Q: You could then. And your children? A: When they went there it was bad. The university was closed for Jewish people. My son Michael want to enter the university for physics. He decided not to go because if he fail the examination, he was then 17 years old and when he became 18 years old they Government, they would mobilize him. The Red Army was so terrible organization. I have no words to relate about this. So terrible. Q: Give me an example. A: We have to serve two years When the Red Army come those who serve the second years. It was so severe for Jews that they got beaten and killed. Q: They beat them? A: It was especially the Jewish. Many young men were killed. Q: They killed them? A: Yes. They make suicide. Q: They commit suicide because it was so bad? A: Yes, because it was so bad. Q: So how did he avoid going into the Red Army? How did he get out of going? A: He entered the institute. Q: So that kept him away and kept him out of the army. A: Yes. Q: So he couldn't go to the university but he could go to the institute. It was easier? So the exams were harder? A: No but we cannot pass the examination because they put him a bad grade. Q: They gave him a bad grade. Did he try to pass the exam at the university. A: No he was afraid, he cannot do. We know exactly the teachers make the bad grade because was for the teacher who make the marks exam. This is Jewish and this is another nationality. You have to take it. It was not choice. Q: Documented, is that the word you want? A: I don't know. But I know the teachers from the university and they told me to don't sent your son to the university. Q: So he went to the institute and it was not as much of a problem. A: Not so problem. He was a very good student. He take the exam and get a good grade. Q: So you came a year later in 1994. You came with your husband and your other son. A: Yes and his family. [Image: Mikhail and son, David, 1994 12K] Q: And his family, okay. A: We come here, straight into Tucson. Q: How come? Why were you in Tucson. A: Because Michael was here. Q: Michael was here. Michael liked Tucson? Why did Michael end up in Tucson? A: Because he enjoyed. Q: No why did he end up in Tucson when he came in 1992? A: It was not his decision. Q: So he didn't make the decision. They assigned him here. A: Yes. In the papers that come to Moscow, it was Tucson. Q: Did you ever consider Israel? Anyone in your family? A: No. Now I have my cousin but I had only my brother. In my family I was only daughter. My mother had passed away. Q: When? A: In 1986. Q: Well before you came here. A: Yes. Q: So you didn't have anybody and your husband didn't have anybody? A: He had two sisters. When we come here they don't want to do it, because they were older and they ware afraid. Q: Afraid of travel? A: Yes, the change. So they have then passed away. Q: So your husband was alive for how long? When did he pass away? A: Just five months ago. [IMAGE: Vera and Elek, Tucson, 1994 12K] Q: Are you happy that you moved here? A: I am happy now because I, it is, I have two feelings. I miss my friends in Russia. Q: The friends who are still there. Do you correspond or do you write to them? A: I write letters I try to call sometimes. Q: How expensive is it to call? A: No so expensive. It is $35 or $37 Q: I see. Do you have internet access? Can you use the computer? A: No. Q: It's very inexpensive then. A: I don't have computer. Q: So how many friends do you keep up with? Continue to call? A: Only two. Q: Two of your closest friends. A: Yes. Q: Now you are here. You came here and you were here a long time with your husband. Neither of you worked. You didn't work? He didn't work? What did you do when you came? A: No. Q: How do you occupy yourself? A: I cook, watch TV and visit friends. Q: Do you have a lot of friends in this building? A: Yes. Q: And you have been to the library. Let's talk a little bit about the library. Is that where you are learning English? A: Yes. I study English here and I knew a little bit when I started the University in Russia. It was 50 years ago. I studied with a good teacher. She just a good teacher. In our faculty it was more attention to the languages. Q: When? A: When I studied at the University. I was in the law faculty or school. The university, they pay attention to the language, make sure the students study the languages. We had law faculty in the university and we had in Leningrad a law institute. The difference was in the programs. In the university, they have better education and it was you have to study more of languages. Q: So you had a broader education, is that what you are saying? A: So I studied German then, something. I studied Hebrew. Q: Do you still do that now? A: No not now. I study for two years. I was sick. Q: Somebody said that they were doing English language here at Council House. They were teaching the English language here. A: Was it Rosa? Q: Bell? A: Yes, I hear about it. I do not begin to understand it. It is maybe just, the other people better now with the English because they are speaking it. Q: So you are much more advanced then? A: I don't know. Q: When you went to Pima? A: When I went to study at Pima, I forget some. Q: We were talking earlier about you going to Himmel Library and you walk in the Park every morning. So you went to the library and asked for Russian books and they told you? A: Yes. They didn't have any. Q: They didn't ask if you wanted them to get some for you? A: No, because I have a student from Pima College, I can go to the university library. Q: Do you go occasionally? A: Yes. I take books. Q: Do you borrow books? A: Yes, I do. Q: Is it hard for you? Is it difficult for you get to the university library. A: No. It is hard because it is hot outside. When it is not so hot, it is not so difficult because I use the bus. Q: Do they have a lot of Russian books? A: Yes, I. Q: At the library do they have a lot? A good selection? A: Yes. Q: Do you find what you want to read? A: Yes, I find what I want. Q: Do your other friends use the library? A: Yes. Q: The ones who live in this building? Do you go together? A: Yes, we go together. Sometimes we go separate. I have some of my own Russian books. Q: Your own little library. Four bookshelves of books that I am looking at. A: Yes. My son who lives in Detroit, Michigan. He send me books, we send books from Russia to here. Q: Is there anything, a service that you could have to make you happier. Like having the library. I am glad you have that. Like having Russian prayer books. (Vera and I have been talking about the fact that there are some available that she understands at Anshei but didn't know about them. I found out that, in fact, there are some available at Young Israel. In fact I want to call Rabbi Shemtov and talk to him about that. Is there anything that would make your life more comfortable, like what you like.) If you could have anything you want, what would it be? A: I am happy. I am happy and thankful. Thanks to America. I am happy because I am not afraid for my sons or for my grandson. Q: I see, I see. A: Yes. Because the schools in Russia were all so very bad for Jewish people, for the children. Q: For the little children. A: The children, they call them Jews and they beat the children. It was bad for the Jewish people in Russia. Q: I am happy you are here. A: Yes. Q: You are happy too. A: I am happy because I feel equal here. I am very thankful. Q: Well I think that can conclude our long interview. View an image of Vera and her family   1 Interviewer has retained the language used by Vera Kameneva during the interviews. Since that time, Vera, a quick and enthusiastic learner, used correct English more consistently Return to the New Americans Oral Histories homepage